Disorder and Light by John Ashbery
Road Trip by Andrea Cohen
Road Trip by Andrea Cohen
The Chambermaids in the Marriott in Midmorning by Maxine Kumin
Metamorphosis 1680 by Linda Bierds
The Identity Repairman by Thomas Sayers Ellis
How the Milky Way Was Made
by Natalie
Diaz
Last week I quote Margaret Atwood: "The truth does not care what we believe.” I quoted her from her book, In Other Worlds: SF and the Human Imagination (page 210) “Human tool makers always make tools hat will help us get what we want and what we want hasn’t changed for thousands of years because as far as we cn tell, the human template hasn’t changed either.
Last week I quote Margaret Atwood: "The truth does not care what we believe.” I quoted her from her book, In Other Worlds: SF and the Human Imagination (page 210) “Human tool makers always make tools hat will help us get what we want and what we want hasn’t changed for thousands of years because as far as we cn tell, the human template hasn’t changed either.
… she lists desires which end with “we want to be as gods. But in addition, we want wisdom and justice. We want hope. We want to be good. Therefore, we tell ourselves warning stories that deal with the shadow side of our wants.”
https://books.google.com/books?id=NaRuLnhbl2QC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=What+we+want+hasn%27t+changed+for+thousands+of+years+%2B+Atwood&source=bl&ots=UFHScvaSDu&sig=1dTRXgJGkwYhCgpJzycSGoeljbk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQte_azcjWAhUBV2MKHfrZDcoQ6AEINDAC#v=onepage&q=What%20we%20want%20hasn't%20changed%20for%20thousands%20of%20years%20%2B%20Atwood&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=NaRuLnhbl2QC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=What+we+want+hasn%27t+changed+for+thousands+of+years+%2B+Atwood&source=bl&ots=UFHScvaSDu&sig=1dTRXgJGkwYhCgpJzycSGoeljbk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQte_azcjWAhUBV2MKHfrZDcoQ6AEINDAC#v=onepage&q=What%20we%20want%20hasn't%20changed%20for%20thousands%20of%20years%20%2B%20Atwood&f=false
I was intrigued by that thought, which acted like a magnet for the above poems.
Poems ask for a reader to say them outloud -- to allow the words to fill the gap between what is written,
and what is imaginable...
For
those who wanted the text of what David read: Alexander Pope — :
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44900/an-essay-on-man-epistle-ii
Thank
you Judith for sharing the fine line between pride and vanity (by extension,
vain glory). Please join me is wishing Judith well as she undergoes a hip
replacement on Monday, Oct. 2.
**
I was not present at the Pittsford group.
The Rundel group made these observations:
**
Disorder and Light: I love the audacity of starting with "Answer: I would dump it".
Already, we are "in media res" -- and entering the stage wondering if someone is ordering us, the reader to say
this to some question about which we have no clue... or just eavesdropping on a conversation -- or simply
dropping into a poem and making the most of it...
The sentences are choppy -- reminiscent of someone channel-surfing or zapping stations while multitasking. What is "it" and who is "she", "you", "he" , "her", "I", "we" -- and when they recur, are they different ? I love the last line,
which, no matter what is agreed to, whatever it is that we are told to say, it is TREES that seem to agree, which
is far more satisfying than the chaotic communications of human voices.
Disorder. Yes. Is light that which is not heavy... soap-operatically light? Shall we just make light of it--
Answer: I would dump it. But can we?
The Ostriker poem with its flowing lines and minimal suggestion of sentences (I counted period, 4 Capitals which suggested new sentences) is dedicated to Frank O'Hara, and nicely pays hommage to him. As a conceit,
there is something reassuring about addressing a dead poet as if alive, particularly speaking about living in a world
removed from anything of "beauty", particularly on garbage pick-up day. Adjectives... urban, small pale; sea-green, enclosed, tough shiny black, heaped hideous, bulky slimy, aesthetic handsome amber columned and corniced, parked, morning, blue, white, red, downy, tender, amusing, beautiful, deathless....
The overabundance of descriptors with a preponderance of colors, does not have more negatives than positives... although it feels that way...
the adverbs "Impatiently" and "acutely" , "reliably" perk up the fact of waiting.
signals, traffic... "truth of waste" and "slipping through a flaw of time"... and that "some kind of message"...and delightful play of the final word "feels like forever' -- not the kind of forever "tuning in to eternity" would give -- or would it?
Read the poem again. It's brilliant, novel, and nothing is surface value.
Road Trip -- typical Cohen style (I just saw this week's New Yorker -- same couplet scheme with enjambments...)
Short, simple... great metaphor of soap... the slippery slivers we pretend are ours, that vanish...
The third poem about the Chambermaids is filled with clattering sounds in the first two lines followed by lovely liquids.
Passionate soaps? The parallel with soap operas and the parallel "except that..." is perfect...
Some felt it was a pejorative portrait. One said how he enjoys chatting with the chambermaids, thanks them,
hears their stories and enjoys the human contact that "do not disturb" would have us remove. We enjoyed seeing
our projections pasted on what we observed.
The Linda Bierds poem was a challenge. The two 17th century scientists quoted seem to be the inspiration...
each line gives a picture... We loved the two places where she stops and asks, "What?" The first time, she
follows with a fuller picture. Why serpyllium -- a more refined term for rhyme... is the bee at risk like the slaughtered bull?
What is diminishing... The second "What" gives a political turn to "Worm... steam, bluster... and repeated "silk moth.
Ah... now a silk moth's mouth to "the potentate's "cloak"... horse/hor...net.
It certainly made us make connections we might not usually make.
We loved the Identity Repairman and Ellis' history of being Black in America. We were reminded of the NAACP and how by the 60's no one in American said "colored" anymore. From African to African American... -- as white people, thinking of things done by white people to non-white people, guilty, for being white, and not being able to stop actions with which I don't agree... seeing the hurt, in this short, to the point history, digs sharply into my conscience.
We didn't have a lot of time to discuss the final poem, but appreciated the story telling bearing witness... A very different style...
**
O Pen: Kathy's report
**
I was not present at the Pittsford group.
The Rundel group made these observations:
**
Disorder and Light: I love the audacity of starting with "Answer: I would dump it".
Already, we are "in media res" -- and entering the stage wondering if someone is ordering us, the reader to say
this to some question about which we have no clue... or just eavesdropping on a conversation -- or simply
dropping into a poem and making the most of it...
The sentences are choppy -- reminiscent of someone channel-surfing or zapping stations while multitasking. What is "it" and who is "she", "you", "he" , "her", "I", "we" -- and when they recur, are they different ? I love the last line,
which, no matter what is agreed to, whatever it is that we are told to say, it is TREES that seem to agree, which
is far more satisfying than the chaotic communications of human voices.
Disorder. Yes. Is light that which is not heavy... soap-operatically light? Shall we just make light of it--
Answer: I would dump it. But can we?
The Ostriker poem with its flowing lines and minimal suggestion of sentences (I counted period, 4 Capitals which suggested new sentences) is dedicated to Frank O'Hara, and nicely pays hommage to him. As a conceit,
there is something reassuring about addressing a dead poet as if alive, particularly speaking about living in a world
removed from anything of "beauty", particularly on garbage pick-up day. Adjectives... urban, small pale; sea-green, enclosed, tough shiny black, heaped hideous, bulky slimy, aesthetic handsome amber columned and corniced, parked, morning, blue, white, red, downy, tender, amusing, beautiful, deathless....
The overabundance of descriptors with a preponderance of colors, does not have more negatives than positives... although it feels that way...
the adverbs "Impatiently" and "acutely" , "reliably" perk up the fact of waiting.
signals, traffic... "truth of waste" and "slipping through a flaw of time"... and that "some kind of message"...and delightful play of the final word "feels like forever' -- not the kind of forever "tuning in to eternity" would give -- or would it?
Read the poem again. It's brilliant, novel, and nothing is surface value.
Road Trip -- typical Cohen style (I just saw this week's New Yorker -- same couplet scheme with enjambments...)
Short, simple... great metaphor of soap... the slippery slivers we pretend are ours, that vanish...
The third poem about the Chambermaids is filled with clattering sounds in the first two lines followed by lovely liquids.
Passionate soaps? The parallel with soap operas and the parallel "except that..." is perfect...
Some felt it was a pejorative portrait. One said how he enjoys chatting with the chambermaids, thanks them,
hears their stories and enjoys the human contact that "do not disturb" would have us remove. We enjoyed seeing
our projections pasted on what we observed.
The Linda Bierds poem was a challenge. The two 17th century scientists quoted seem to be the inspiration...
each line gives a picture... We loved the two places where she stops and asks, "What?" The first time, she
follows with a fuller picture. Why serpyllium -- a more refined term for rhyme... is the bee at risk like the slaughtered bull?
What is diminishing... The second "What" gives a political turn to "Worm... steam, bluster... and repeated "silk moth.
Ah... now a silk moth's mouth to "the potentate's "cloak"... horse/hor...net.
It certainly made us make connections we might not usually make.
We loved the Identity Repairman and Ellis' history of being Black in America. We were reminded of the NAACP and how by the 60's no one in American said "colored" anymore. From African to African American... -- as white people, thinking of things done by white people to non-white people, guilty, for being white, and not being able to stop actions with which I don't agree... seeing the hurt, in this short, to the point history, digs sharply into my conscience.
We didn't have a lot of time to discuss the final poem, but appreciated the story telling bearing witness... A very different style...
**
O Pen: Kathy's report
Ashbery: We agreed it seemed like a disjointed conversation or someone overhearing bits of conversation. And if the poem is the answer, what could possibly be the question?
Andrea Cohen - I thought her choice of the word "pretended" opened up possibilities of meaning.
Ostriker - people liked her use of line in the stanzas and her effective use of adjectives, and her last line.
Maxine Kumin's poem about the Chambermaids caused a surprise a twist of discussion. A few people felt strongly that the narrator (or author) was being patronizing and offensive to "marginalized" persons. I and a couple people felt just the opposite.
Metamorphosis - you would have brought such fun to the poem that we totally missed.
Identity Repairman - thought it was powerful.
MY RESPONSE:
The Kumin poem had the same response at Rundel… divided…
Sometimes as in the Ellis, I think we should just let the poem do the talking… No matter the circumstance background… if it’s not coloring the poem, can we allow the poem to do its work?
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